___ _ _ ____ _____ _ _ ____ ___ __ ____ ___ / __)( )_( )( _ \( _ )( \( )(_ _)/ __)( ) ( ___)/ __) ( (__ ) _ ( ) / )(_)( ) ( _)(_( (__ )(__ )__) \__ \ \___)(_) (_)(_)\_)(_____)(_)\_)(____)\___)(____)(____)(___/ _____ ____ ( _ )( ___) )(_)( )__) (_____)(__) ___ _ _ __ _____ ___ / __)( )_( ) /__\ ( _ )/ __) ( (__ ) _ ( /(__)\ )(_)( \__ \ \___)(_) (_)(__)(__)(_____)(___/ Sixth Anniversary Mega-Issue ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CHRONICLES OF CHAOS e-Zine, August 12, 2001, Issue #54 http://www.ChroniclesOfChaos.com Editor-in-Chief: Gino Filicetti Coordinator: Adrian Bromley Copy Editor / Contributor: Pedro Azevedo Assistant Copy Editor / Contributor: Brian Meloon Contributor: Adam Wasylyk Contributor: Paul Schwarz Contributor: Aaron McKay Contributor: David Rocher Contributor: Matthias Noll Contributor: Alvin Wee Contributor: Gabriel Sanchez Contributor: Chris Flaaten Spiritual Guidance: Alain M. Gaudrault The individual writers can be reached by e-mail at firstname@ChroniclesOfChaos.com ("firstname" must be replaced by the respective writer's first name, e.g. Gino@ChroniclesOfChaos.com). NOTE: You may unsubscribe from Chronicles of Chaos at any time by sending a blank e-mail to . For more Chronicles of Chaos information, check out the Details section at the end of this issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Issue #54 Contents, 8/12/01 --------------------------- * Editorial * Loud Letters * Deadly Dialogues -- Absu: Celtic Carnage -- Katatonia: Songs of Quintessential Sorrow -- Nevermore: Dead Heat for the Politicians of Ecstasy -- Anathema: Inner Resonance -- Cadaver Inc.: The Discipline of Sandwich-Making -- Keelhaul: Angled to Amaze -- Akercocke: Satanic Art -- Amon Amarth: The Avengers' Crushing Comeback -- The Forsaken: Forsaken But Not Forgotten -- The End Records: The Genesis of The End -- Epoch of Unlight: An Unlightly Story -- Melechesh: Mesopotamian Hunger -- Old Man Gloom: Monkeys Taught Me Guitar! -- Demonic Christ: Demonic Battle Mom: Dana's Return -- Iced Earth: The (Horror) Show Must Go On -- Darkane: Dark Insanity -- Circle of Dead Children: Necro-Pedophiles 'R' Us -- Mourning Beloveth: Earth to Earth, Ashes to Ashes... -- Virgin Steele: A Greek Tragedy Written in Metal -- Andromeda: Star Shooter Supreme * Album Asylum -- 3D House of Beef - _Low Cycle_ -- Abominant - _Ungodly_ -- Aborted - _Engineering the Dead_ - Mortician - _Domain of Death_ -- Absu - _Tara_ -- Aeon - _Dark Order_ -- Agalloch - _Of Stone, Wind, and Pillor_ -- Akercocke - _The Goat of Mendes_ -- Alas - _Absolute Purity_ -- Amon Amarth - _The Crusher_ -- Amorphis - _Am Universum_ -- Anata - _Dreams of Death and Dismay_ -- Anathema - _Resonance_ -- Ancient Rites - _Dim Carcosa_ -- Annihilatus - _Annihilation_ 10" -- Ark - _Burn the Sun_ -- Association Area - _Loathsome Deco_ -- Autopsy - _Ridden With Disease_ - Autopsy - _Torn From the Grave_ - Murder Squad - _Unsane, Insane & Mentally Deranged_ -- Avantasia - _The Metal Opera_ -- Bal-Sagoth - _Atlantis Ascendant_ -- Belfegor - _The Kingdom of Glacial Palaces_ - Fog - _Through the Eyes of Night..._ - Hate - _Holy Dead Trinity_ -- Black Label Society - _Alcohol Fueled Brewtality: Live +5_ -- Various - _Black Metal Blitzkrieg_ -- Bloodthorn - _Under the Reign of Terror_ -- Various - _Brazilian Assault_ -- Cadaver Inc. - _Discipline_ -- Catholicon - _Lost Chronicles of the War in Heaven_ -- cEvin Key - _The Ghost of Each Room_ -- Chamber - _You and What Army_ -- Christ Aborted in Nativity - _If You Set Yourself on Fire?_ -- Circle of Dead Children - _The Genocide Machine_ -- Cirith Gorgor - _Unveiling the Essence_ -- Clandestine Blaze / Deathspell Omega - _Split LP_ -- Cradle of Filth - _Bitter Suites to Succubi_ -- Cripple Bastards - _Almost Human_ - Cripple Bastards - _Misantropo a Senso Unico_ -- Crowbar - _Sludge: History of Crowbar_ -- Darkane - _Insanity_ -- Darwin's Waiting Room - _Orphan_ -- Das Ich - _Re_Laborat_ -- Dawndeath Incinerator - _Tomb of Corporeal Butchery_ -- Death & Taxe$ - _theenigmathatisman_ -- DeathFrost - _Cynoptik of DeathFrost / Death to All_ -- Deepred - _Prophetic Luster_ -- Demimonde - _Mutant Star_ -- Deranged - _Deranged_ -- Diabolical Masquerade - _Death's Design_ -- Disbelief - _Worst Enemy_ -- Disgorge - _Forensick_ -- Divine Decay - _Songs of the Damned_ -- Dragonlord - _Rapture_ -- Edera - _Edera_ -- Em Sinfonia - _Intimate Portrait_ -- Enter My Silence - _Remotecontrolled Scythe_ -- Event Down - _Sift_ -- Exhumed - _Slaughtercult_ (saw-blade reissue) -- Exordium - _Exordium_ 10" -- Failed Humanity - _The Sound of Razors Through Flesh_ -- Faith and the Muse - _Evidence of Haven_ - Faith and the Muse - _Elyria_ -- Fear Factory - _Digimortal_ -- Finntroll - _Jaktens Tid_ -- God Dethroned - _Ravenous_ -- Grog - _Odes to the Carnivorous_ -- Haat - _Factum Luctisonus_ -- Honor / Graveland - _Raiders of Revenge_ -- Imperial Sodomy - _Tormenting the Pacifist_ -- Incriminated - _Illusion of Love_ 7" -- Ingrowing - _Suicide Binary Reflections_ -- Isis - _SGNL>05_ -- Judas Iscariot / Krieg - _To the Coming Age of Intolerance_ -- Junta - _Junta_ -- Karma to Burn - _Almost Heathen_ -- Keelhaul - _II_ -- Khold - _Masterpiss of Pain_ -- King Diamond - _Decade of Horror_ -- Kult Ov Azazel - _Triumph of Fire_ -- Lacrimas Profundere - _Burning: A Wish_ -- Lobotomy - _Holy Shit_ -- Lost Soul - _Scream of the Mourning Star_ -- Madder Mortem - _All Flesh Is Grass_ -- Mayhem - _US Legions_ -- Melechesh - _Djinn_ -- Merlin - _They Must Die_ -- Moonspell - _Darkness and Hope_ -- My Dying Bride - _Meisterwerk II_ -- Myrddraal - _Blood on the Mountain_ -- Mystica - _Blinded By My Blood_ -- Necrology - _Malignancy Defined_ -- Necronom - _Exordium_ -- Neurosis - _A Sun That Never Sets_ -- No Return - _Self Mutilation_ -- Nokturnal Mortum - _Lunar Poetry_ -- Obligatorisk Tortyr - _Obligatorisk Tortyr_ -- Occult - _Violence and Hatred_ -- Pest - _Towards the Bestial Armageddon_ 7" -- Peter Murphy - _Alive: Just for Love_ -- Project Pitchfork - _Daimonion_ -- Proscriptor - _The Serpentine Has Risen_ -- Psychotogen - _Perverse and Unnatural Practices_ -- Rebaelliun - _Annihilation_ -- Sceptic - _Pathetic Being_ -- Silentium - _Altum_ -- Steel Prophet - _Book of the Dead_ -- Stratovarius - _Intermission_ -- The Darksend - _Antichrist in Excelsis_ -- Therios - _II_ -- Throneaeon - _Neither of Gods_ -- Various - _Triarchy of Vasconia_ -- Vesperian Sorrow - _Psychotic Sculpture_ -- Vitriol - _I-VII_ -- War - _We Are... Total War_ -- W.A.S.P. - _Unholy Terror_ -- Winds - _Of Entity and Mind_ -- Within Tears - _Moments of Life: Chapter 1_ -- Zonata - _Reality_ * New Noise -- Forlorn Legacy - _Dead Man's Fear_ -- Holocaust - _Holocaust_ -- Neocrima - _Indifference's Deadly_ -- Oroboros - _Demo CD_ -- Qohelet - _Thanatopsis_ -- Spiritus Mortis - _Forward to the Battle_ -- Winter Bestowed - _Within My Labyrinthine Heart_ * Chaotic Concerts -- Wery Wicious Wacken Wiolence: Wacken Open Air -- Brave Redrum Night: Katatonia and Akercocke in London -- Mechanics of Deceit: Tool and Cortizone in London -- Puritanical Destructive Predominance: Dimmu Borgir and Destruction * Writer's Wrath -- The Four MusCoCteers, Episode 3 * What We Have Cranked * Details =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _____) / /) , , /) )__ _(/ _/_ _____ _ // / (_(__(_(__(_)/ (__(_(_(_(/_ (_____) by: Gino Filicetti Once again that time of year is upon us. August 12 will forever be remembered as "Chronicles of Chaos Day". It is upon this day, what should be considered an international holiday, that we look back in awe on all the things that we, as a magazine, have achieved over the past six years since our inception. Six years of terrorizing the globe with evil in all its forms; gargantuan yet graceful, this magazine and our readership has become more than I had ever hoped to achieve. I'm sure each and everyone of you will thoroughly enjoy this mammoth issue we've put together -- our second biggest of all time. First off, I would like to announce an update to our website which we have been waiting until today to unleash. To the delight of many of you (our writers included) you will be pleased to know that we've implemented a search engine to scour our back issues. The search engine is simple enough; you can use either the quick search form on our main page, or the search page itself for more complex searches. The results are scored on the occurrences of the words you typed in, so the more often a word appears, the higher it is scored. This new tool will prove invaluable in searching for old reviews or interviews with your favourite bands. Also, we have some big news on the new writer front. We have recently accepted three new part-time, probationary writers. First, we have Quentin Kalis, a 21-year old English grad who hails from Cape Town, South Africa. Second, we have Kirsty Buchanan, whose material has appeared in our pages before and who is finally contributing regularly to CoC. Finally, we have Vincent Eldefors, from Sweden, another 21-year old who will be contributing material to CoC, along with continuing to edit his own 'zine: Tartarean Desire. I'm sure you'll be pleased with what you see from our new rookies. And don't forget, even you can audition for a spot on the Chronicles of Chaos writing staff. Just send a note to: Auditions@ChroniclesOfChaos.com and tell us a little about yourself and why you think you'd be a good fit with CoC. On a personal note, I'd like to point you all to the review of Absu's newest album, _Tara_, in this issue. You will notice that it is authored by a certain individual who has been in retirement from regular duty since CoC #16. I can hardly believe it has been that long since I've taken up arms to pen a review, but I've finally broken the vicious cycle. The main reason for this, besides enormous peer pressure, was that I couldn't let the brilliance that is _Tara_ go unpraised. So I fired up my typewriter, and cranked out a review three times larger than your run of the mill variety. Even with so many words, it really is hard to express my admiration for such a kick-ass album. Also this issue we've got an in-depth interview with Sir Proscriptor McGovern himself in which Paul Schwarz pulls no punches in confronting him with the issues and questions at hand. And to top it all off, Adam Wasylyk has provided us with a review of Proscriptor's newest foray into solo territory: _The Serpentine Has Risen_. There are many more highlights within the vastness of this issue, however: a -triple- interview with Katatonia coupled with a live review of that same band, a last-minute Wacken Open Air report, and the final episode of The Four MusCoCteers -- just to cite a few. We've received a good wack of Loud Letters these past few months, and I'd like to thank everyone who wrote in. I encourage everyone with something to say to send email to: LoudLetters@ChroniclesOfChaos.com and just let it all out. Loud Letters really is a discussion forum for all of you, not a praise bucket. So go at it and let us know what you really think. Finally, I can't stress enough how important it is to get the word out there and tell everyone you know about Chronicles of Chaos. It's amazing how many people on the Internet are fans of the most extreme forms of metal and haven't even heard of our publication. We are truly doing them a disservice by keeping them in the dark. There is only so much our staff can do to spread the word, we are merely a couple of ten people, but you, the readership, are a horde of thousands... Well, I'll keep this short and sweet and finish while I'm ahead. There's no need to keep you from devouring this issue; I'm sure you'll all enjoy it, and once again THANK YOU, from the entire CoC staff, for an unforgettable six years. Without our readers, there really wouldn't be a reason to put in all this hard work. Until next time... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= M""MMMMMMMM dP M MMMMMMMM 88 M MMMMMMMM .d8888b. dP dP .d888b88 M MMMMMMMM 88' `88 88 88 88' `88 M MMMMMMMM 88. .88 88. .88 88. .88 M M `88888P' `88888P' `88888P8 MMMMMMMMMMM M""MMMMMMMM dP dP M MMMMMMMM 88 88 M MMMMMMMM .d8888b. d8888P d8888P .d8888b. 88d888b. .d8888b. M MMMMMMMM 88ooood8 88 88 88ooood8 88' `88 Y8ooooo. M MMMMMMMM 88. ... 88 88 88. ... 88 88 M M `88888P' dP dP `88888P' dP `88888P' MMMMMMMMMMM This is the column where we print those lovely letters our readers decide so graciously to write us. Whether they be positive, negative, ignorant or just plain spelled wrong, you can rest assured that they'll be here in their original form. If you'd like to see your own letter here, e-mail it to . All letters received will be featured in upcoming issues of Chronicles of Chaos. Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 From: "Jackie Smit" <1998549750@wwg3.uovs.ac.za> Subject: Attention: Loud Letters Greetings! I have mailed your fine 'zine a couple of times before, but after reading your editorial in the latest issue (which was superb by the way), I thought I'd do something which I don't see a lot of other letter-writers doing - say something positive. Many writers, critics and other individuals, particularly those in the mainstream metal magazines, have been knocking Death Metal for years now and the slogan of "Death Metal is dead!" has rung out numerous times. Now, as I listen to the new Napalm Death CD, I am once again reminded of just how vibrant the scene is at the moment. A few years ago, Death Metal was indeed growing stale and tired and were it not for a couple of stalwarts such as Morbid Angel, it may very well have died. But in recent times and particularly last year we saw a flood of new albums by bands who, despite having been around for some time, seemed to have saved their best releases for the year 2000. Possibly a plan of the devil to show his dominance in the new millenium - heaven forbid we start up that debate again! Seriously though, Immolation, Dying Fetus, Morbid Angel, Nile, Cryptopsy, Napalm Death and Vader all brought out some of the most intense, original work to be heard in years - proving, I think, that Death Metal is alive and well and perhaps the sub-genre of extreme music to have developed most over the years. In the light of this, I know that many fans of the metal of death knew that this would happen some or other time, and at the risk of sounding like a brownnoser, I would like to say that Chronicles of Chaos also foresaw this revolution. I have been a subscriber for nearly four years and as far as I'm concerned CoC blows EVERY 'zine or magazine clear out of the water - always has and (I hope) always will. Thank you for never wimping out and for providing fans of Death Metal and all other forms of extreme music with a publication that was no doubt one of the highlights of their month. I know I am speaking for a lot of people when I say best of luck in the future. Fuck the commerce! Jackie Smit South Africa Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 From: "Jim Tasikas" Subject: The Metal Genre I would hope that one day metal music will distinguish itself in the public eye for properties that make it a beautiful music and display its values. Unlike the Jazz music genre, which is very similar to metal in stucture, metal has been unable to develop stature in the general public arena. Metal and jazz are similar in structure in the following ways: 1. Much of the appreciation lies within the technical playing capacilities of member of the bands. 2. There are many levels of technical playing and creativity (musically). 3. Fusions of a different genre is incoporated many instances. There many more reasons, too many to go into detail.... The main point being....focus on quality and stature of music! NOT stupid concepts like War on Chrisitanity, or even Anti-government, or even social reform, or environmental issues.....(both positive or negative concepts) The MUSIC!!!!!! makes metal what it is....music which is introspective and emotional and creative and evolving. We should be promoting the music and not using all the other stupid bullshit to publisize or promote....PLEASE. Thanks to all the satantic, atheist, vegan, anti-government, gore driven idiots musicians (not music listeners) who had to taint there music with idiot lyrics to get attention. (NOTE: These concepts, when lyrics are written with creativity and good taste are a different story.) Bands of integrity (Beutiful music and use controversial concepts in good taste): Iron Maiden Fates Warning Tool Pain Of Salvation Dark Tranquillity At The Gates (borderline...) Cynic Death(new) Contol Denied Aghora Zero Hour Enchant Symphony X Engine Agent Steel King Diamond (Them and Abigail) Sepultura (Arise, Chaos AD) Anathema The are many different type of metal here an levels of technicality. People who disagree with this letter and idiots and just listen to metal for anger and dispair and attention. Thanks for reading. Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 From: Patrick McIntosh Subject: Death/Black/Blue/Green Metal, etc. Echoing DER TODESKIN's letter from COC #53, I too am bothered by the petty labeling of bands by "fans." Obviously, the labeling does have it's purpose. Band X is a black metal band, Band Y is a death metal band...helps us get a quick read on what to expect from the material. However, with advancing time, genres are invariably going to blend, with the black and white fading into a larger grey area. What constitues black metal now? Harsh guitars with no keyboards? What if you use keyboards? Are you selling out? Can you sing only anti-Christian lyrics? Do you have to wear corpsepaint? What if you are TOO intelligible? What if a band came out wearing t-shirts and shorts, and all the members were bald? Bet nobody'd consider them black metal. Obviously, that's a facetious example, but I'm hoping my point is getting across: it's simply harder to differentiate between forms of extreme metal, and it's pointless to dismiss a band because of their nonconformity to some tired norm. It's too much about imagery and not enough about THE MUSIC. If it's good, dig it. More colors would solve a lot I think. If you sing about satan and hell, you're in a red metal band. If you sing about corpses and decay, why not green? Sounds like a good color for rotting flesh. Or maybe purple. Silly. Patrick Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 From: "evil" Subject: re: War on atheism Going from an atheist stance to accepting what feels real but is unprovable takes a lot of personal courage. Denial is easy - spiritual evolution is hard. Indeed one needs a lot of courage to cover himself with shame ;D))))) Reallity is mysterious enough, none can understand its physic. Until now the universe is far beyond the understanding of the human spirit. Why do you need fairytales about universe. Universe is a living being because of us, the humans, the animals and plants but that's all. Denial isn't easy, refusing the promises of a rebirth, living with no faith except that death is waiting for you at the end of the path requires a lot of courage. Having no false promises that helps you to live without fearing the horrible end that awaits all of us. I believe in the misery, in the grave and that rotting corpses will never walk again. Misery, pain, happiness everything is provided by gods say the faithfull people. Then I say I suffer when I see a child suffering, I suffer when I see my poor mother with half of her brain dead. How can a mighty god supports the suffering of millions of people... It's impossible. He will not suport the amount of pain, he will want to stop it right now. Either he doesn't exists or he does and then deserve only our hate. I'm quite a happy man, but if something exists and is responsible for a part of the suffering I got (just hear my mother crying like a beast every day when she thinks about what she became). We need neither weak or cruel or indifferent gods. Grow up, face the death like a man not like a child. Absolute evil Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 From: "Ruben Altena" Subject: question Hi, I have a question. I've been looking for the answer on the internet but i haven't been able to find it. that's why i email you. Why is virtually all black metal about satan and anti-christianity and it's worths? I like many sorts of music and extreme metal is one of it. I love the music of bands such as cradle of filth, mayhem, emperor, summoning, morbid angel, paradise lost and napalm death. The problem is, i don't want to own anything with a content that is completely against my beliefs and ideas, which means i don't want to listen to any bands with satanic, anti-christian, nationalistic, nazistic (or extremely right-wing political) or militaristic sympathies. I also don't want any extremely violent, immoral, insulting, preachery or new-age inspired lyrics. i think so many of these lyrics are so silly. All this crap about cannibalism, horror, vampires, devils and black moons, angels, suns etc. etc. is sooooo silly IMHO. I know there's some bands singing (screaming) about trolls and fairytales and ancient legends, but i'm not into that sort of stuff so i'm looking for something different. I like lyrics about the beauty and power of nature, as long as it's not new-age like and it's not worshipping nature as a god-like thing or something. I've been listening to my dying bride but i think they're too over the top. i've also been listening to dark tranquillity but the music is a bit too soft for me. I've been listening to some christian black metal bands but i also don't want that because it's very preachy and just as well as satanic metal quite concrete about things like God and the devil. I don't mind if the music is made by christians (in fact, i'd prefer it) but i don't like the way most extreme metal bands sing about religion, in a very aggressive and concrete way. I'd prefer a more vague approach. I do feel that the atmosphere of black metal requires certain 'dark' lyrics, but i don't understand why it can't focus on psychological darkness instead of the two-horned devil thing. I don't mind religious influences in the lyrics as long as it doesn't become either insulting or preachy. Could you perhaps advice me some bands or songs that have a different lyrical approach? And could you tell me how you think about these things and if you think that black metal has to be satanic or it wouldn't be black metal. Maybe you can help me find more information about this subject. I'm in for a discussion. thank you, ruben Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 From: "Bandi Bandi" Subject: tormentor Hi! I was surprised when I read the interview with Fenriz in CoC#53, because of David Rocher's question, related to "Attila Csihar's band, Aborym". Wow!! I never thought David, or anybody in the USA knew about my country's only famous metal band, Tormentor, and it's singer, Attila Csihar! This band was a black metal legend in the late '80s, here in Europe. They were so inspiring that even Euronymus (Mayhem) called Attila to sing on the milestone De Mysteriies Dom Sathanas album, after Dead committed suicide. Attila has released two albums with Tormentor, which had influenced the black metal genre so much. As you know, Dissection covered a Tormentor track on their Where Dead Angels Lie EP (Elizabeth Bathori), but to go further, there's also a Tormentor riff in the Children Of Bodom song "Hatebreeder". Anyway, Tormentor was reformed again in 1999, and released an album with rare live tracks, and an another one in 2000, with brand new songs, called "Recipe Ferrum". It's good, but isn't in the vein of the old songs. And another surprise for me, also in that issue: Proscriptor mentions Plasma Pool as one of his favourites! I can't believe this!! I think none of you there has heard of Plasma Pool, but it's also in connection with Attila Csihar, because it is his solo project. But here in Hungary also only a few people know about it, because it's very-very-very rare!! Proscriptor really knows the underground bands!! So, keep surprising me with things like this in the future :) Bye, keep up the good work Bandi from Hungary =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= __ \ | | | | _ \ _` | _` | | | | | | __/ ( | ( | | | | ____/ \___|\__,_|\__,_|_|\__, | ____/ __ \ _) | | | | _` | | _ \ _` | | | _ \ __| | | | ( | | ( | ( | | | __/\__ \ ____/ _|\__,_|_|\___/ \__, |\__,_|\___|____/ |___/ C E L T I C C A R N A G E ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CoC chats with Sir Proscriptor McGovern of Absu by: Paul Schwarz Absu's latest album -- called _Tara_ [reviewed in this issue], and released a few months ago on Osmose Productions -- begins and ends with bagpiping. When first I endeavoured to explore the music which interposed _Tara_'s intro and outro, I tried to ignore the 'piping; it seemed incongruent. Then _Tara_ began to become open to me in all sorts of other new ways, and after being consistently enthralled in recent weeks with the album in its entirety -- its every minute, lyrics, vocal patterns and all -- the bagpipes finally began to make sense, fit in, and become a worthy part of the mighty metal massacre that Absu's fourth album and fifth release is. Absu are not averse to grandiosity, yet the band are simultaneously the most untalked-up of bands in a very important sense: the ultimate greatness of Absu is rarely exaggerated, though it is often misunderstood. Some people seek to label Absu a "black metal" band, though I've never seen such a position defended or justified. In my opinion, such a position cannot be convincingly defended. If you look at and think about what "black metal" really is -- what makes a "black metal" band -- and compare what Absu really are -- musically -and- conceptually -- you will find between few and no shared qualities between the two. Only the broadest, most unhelpful definition of a "black metal" band could include Absu -- and no-one should really be able to get away with calling them "black thrash" either. Musically, the classification that comes closest to defining Absu is "speed metal" as it was used circa the mid-Eighties. Absu use the term "mythological occult metal" to describe themselves for their own reasons, and though the term is essentially just an idiosyncratic, relatively direct description of what they actually create, in 2001 it's as useful a label as any you could propose. I say Absu are a ferocious heavy metal band who don't require greater pigeonholing with words, but instead need to be heard to be understood and enjoyed. _Tara_ is a complete package, the most complete Absu have ever presented. Musically, it represents Absu's signature sound, but is blessed with by far their finest production to date. I said "signature sound", and though within that classification there is a coherent, consistent style also to be identified, the breadth of Absu's expression is unusually varied. Forget the bagpiping, I'm thinking of the way that though "Pillars of Mercy" or "Manannan" may remind you of Slayer, "Bron (of the Waves)" will bring to mind mid-Seventies-era Rush; the way that "Yrp LLuyddawc"'s brooding synth-led atmospherics will truly intrigue you and draw you in before "From Ancient Times (Starless Skies Burn to Ash)" batters the shit out of you; the way that the utter, furious extremity of "Four Crossed Wands (Spell 181)" or "Vorago (Spell 182)" is not expressed merely by relentless blasting and creatively idiotic technique; the way that the albums closing epic "Stone of Destiny (...for Magh Slecht and Ard Righ)" can retain the character and fury of the barrage-like songs that precede it, yet simultaneously showcase a much broader dynamic range. Mixing lightning speed double-bass battery and blasts with wails that would have Halford straining, and a coherent conceptual character that would impress King Diamond, this final track is distinctly triumphant: proof that older, traditional metal elements can sit alongside aggression and impact beyond their original context. Absu are definitely a special case in the extreme metal scene, a stand-alone. Proscriptor's drumming alone is absolutely phenomenal, mixing much that is technical and will only be specifically noted after repeated, careful listens -- or by fellow musicians -- with distinct and individual, yet direct, powerful and furious playing. Not for nothing do so many have such respect for his individual musical talent, and on _Tara_ one can hear what he is doing more clearly than ever by virtue of its production, which is highly improved over Absu's previous albums. What is most uniquely wonderful about Absu is that the praise and high regard accorded to them does not cease when we move on from speaking of their music in isolation from the lyrics that accompany it or the concepts and ideas that are at work behind it. Absu concoct fiction and non-fiction into a coherent, fantastical whole. They are not quite writing historical fiction, but something close to it. The lyrics to _Tara_'s individual songs and the concepts and ideas which bind the album together are based on an expansive knowledge of Celtic history and mythology, and also more recent texts concerned with magic(k) and gnosticism, i.e. the writings of Aleister Crowley. Some songs seem to retell actual history, others concoct their own using certifiably real historical settings and characters, while others utilise or pertain to characters and events catalogued in mythology. Absu are meticulous, and though their purpose is not to teach, _Tara_ is intended to be interpretable and understandable by any listener of Absu willing to spend some time with it in its entirety -- lyrics booklet and all. Reading along to the songs whilst they play opens them up, and though technical or foreign terms may at first confuse, they are clearly defined in the album's five-and-a-half page glossary with more than sufficient accurate and relevant historical or literary detail, as appropriate. The lyrics are beautifully well patterned into the structure of the music, as well as being coherent from a literary perspective. Also notable is how effectively a range of vocal "voices" are employed. _Tara_'s lyrics are written with a broad range of knowledge in mind and in use, yet they are respectful of and faithful to their sources. At the same time, Absu are not merely singing textbooks or even transliterating them: _Tara_'s lyrics are original, written for the album. Absu are engrossed in their subject matter; _Tara_ gives the impression of being written from within a coherent, imaginative yet well-researched Celtic "worldview". Without resorting to creating Celticised metal comic book characters, Absu work the sound of metal and the subject of Celtic history and mythology together. Incredibly, they have managed to do so without degrading either element. I can't think of a single metal album that has ever treated real ancient history and/or mythology quite as effectively as Absu have with _Tara_. Apart from Nile's _Black Seeds of Vengeance_, I can't think of a single case where the two elements haven't seemed damagingly incongruent rather than mutually complementary. Rarely is historical subject matter well treated by metal bands either in terms of how much research is done into a given topic, how the lyrics themselves are penned, or how the music and the lyrics fit together. _Tara_ is not only internally coherent, it is reassuringly relevant to the actual. The hill of Tara and the so-called "Stone of Destiny" can be visited, and the area is currently being excavated by archaeologists; the background picture for "Yrp Lluyddawc" in _Tara_'s booklet is of a megalithic site near the hill of Tara call Newgrange which dates to 3000 BC; the hill of Slane near Newgrange is where St. Patrick is said to have lit the first fire to signal Ireland's conversion to Christianity, and the kings of Tara, seeing the blaze miles off, are said to have been angered, having ordered no fires to be made until their permission was given. Absu's hard work and attention to detail assure that _Tara_ is real, accurate, and worth paying attention to on a lyrical level, just as its music richly deserves to be given lots of time and your full attention. There is more to explore on _Tara_ than most albums you will encounter, period. Once you have explored it and pored over it, it doesn't diminish in appeal, but will continue to enthrall and excite the senses yet more vigorously. That has been my experience. The following interview with Sir Proscriptor McGovern was conducted before I had a full copy of _Tara_, and before I had listened to the album more than eight to ten times. However, I feel it is very informative, and provides many insights into Absu's work and ideas. I hope you enjoy reading it. [All text in "()" brackets is approximated, from where my questions incomprehensible because of tape feedback. -- Paul] CoC: How are things? Proscriptor McGovern: Good, very good. CoC: This is Absu's fourth album and fifth release. Are you happy with how it turned out? PM: Yeah, I am. I mean, there's a couple of things about the production that I wish could be altered a little bit, but hey, I think I'll probably say this about every release that we unleash on the public so what can I do, you know? But overall I'm pleased. I think it's better than some of the past efforts we've done and overall very satisfying and the response has been quite prosperous. CoC: I really quite like the record. PM: Thank you. CoC: (But I know that there are a lot of people out there who aren't really gonna understand the band, and may reject you because of your unusual concepts or the way you dress or whatever. Thus, I'm going to be quite confrontational and hard on you in this interview.) There are a lot of rather complex, bold statements that have been made about _Tara_ so I figured it would be best to tackle it all head on. PM: No problem. CoC: Basically, to start off with: the bagpipes. Why start and end the record with bagpipes, and why use them at all? PM: Well, I think one of the main reasons why we chose an intro and outro and to have that with the bagpipes is that the pipes are a very emotional and a very gloomy Celtic instrument and it's a Celtic-based scene, which is _Tara_. And we used the pipes because I wanted to introduce all the skirmishing, the frenzied-like war tactics and all the hate and banefulness that's used not only with the lyrical content of the album, but also the strong skirmishing emotions of the album and what it pertains to. And actually the outro is a prologue to the album, it's just kind of... it's a recapitulation and it's just a reprise of what the intro is, and I think it just explains the thesis behind the album in the best way. CoC: How does _Tara_ "balance a collation between tyranny, puissance, alchemical science, and magick"? [Quote derived from Osmose's advert for _Tara_, and the album's press release -- Paul]. That's a pretty large, bold, statement and, quite fairly, the majority of people who read a heavy metal mag aren't gonna know what the fuck it means. PM: Yeah, actually I can translate that into a more elementary terminology which is just magic(k), mythology and mysticism. It's the juxtaposition between those three elements and to sum it up into one statement: that's what the album is about, divided into two chapters -- which I like to call phases -- which is Ioldanach's Pedagogy and The Cythraul Klan's Scrutiny. So, those technical terminologies I would say: mythology, magic and mysticism. I'm not a simple individual. I have to... I'm more of a vanguard eclectic speaking man, more or less. CoC: (Do you think people will get the idea of _Tara_? Do you think you've managed to convey things in a way that people can understand? With all the technical terminology that you use, do you think people will be able to understand what you're trying to say and does it matter to you if they can or not?) PM: Well, I'm glad you brought that up 'cause with past Absu releases the aural manifestation has been a little perplexed of the lyrical content and poetic patterns that are used in previous albums. Since _Tara_ is a conceptual opus it will become more intricate and technical not only in the vocabulary but the way the words are structured within the entire album. But for all followers and listeners of _Tara_, when they purchase the album, what I have done -- and what I don't think any other band in extreme metal music and I know no other band on Osmose Productions has done -- I have included a four-page full glossary of every foreign and technical term in the back. So, for example, when the listener of Absu comes across, maybe the second verse, a bridge, a chorus or what-not, they come across a word like Ioldanach, for example, and they think: "what the fuck is that!? Who is that? How do I pronounce that?", you just go and flip to page forty-one and all the terms and definitions will be back there. I wanted to make it a story and almost like a textbook. It's really important that the listener of Absu understands what I'm talking about. So defining technical terms and foreign terms, I think, is very important. CoC: [I explain my point of view on _Tara_. I do not feel that the album is quite "innovative and revolutionary" as Proscriptor claimed it was in an interview in issue #15 of Unrestrained! magazine, but I do see that in songs such as "Shield With an Iron Face" there are unusual time signatures being used. I explain that to me _Tara_ is more an individual record forged mostly of thrash metal origins. I question Proscriptor on how he can justify the claim that the album is "innovative and revolutionary" and ask him to describe what he means by "mythological occult metal". I believe I also touched on the fact that many people are likely to pass off _Tara_ as mere "retro-thrash". -- Paul] PM: The reason why it's called "mythological occult metal" is strictly due to the eclectic and eccentric lyrical content, that's basically what it is. Of course we have elements of black, thrash, death, doom, heavy metal, hard rock and progressive music all concocted into one style that, ever since we genesised -- the spawn of Absu's career in 1989 -- we felt that we'd rather call "mythological occult metal" before some kind of label is stuck on Absu's music by fans and the critics. I don't think there's anything wrong with actually innovating our own moniker inside metal music. But of course there are references and influences innovating thrash music that are very relevant in the music, especially on the album. But I believe that it's quite innovative and somewhat original because I've studied jazz fusion drumming and percussion and I've implemented about fifty percent of those styles into the music of Absu. So, for example, in some of the parts I've tried to create drum patterns similar to Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, Loft Machine and Caravan, but sped up at quadruple speed of anywhere between 270 and 315 beats per minute. So basically, I'm taking old Seventies hard rock drumming influences and just speeding them up to a frenzied tempo. CoC: [Exchanges I can't remember particularly well, but which must have been about the underlying rhythms in Proscriptor's drumming -- underneath a seemingly simple central rhythm patterning, there is often an unusual time signature. I believe my last comment before Proscriptor here speaks was about the drum patterning in "Stone of Destiny". -- Paul] PM: Correct, and quarter rolls that are used on the snare drum as well, which is highly influenced by Bill Bruford. CoC: What I found about the album is that it sounds to modern Nineties listeners like you've gone back, you can definitely hear influences, but it still sounds like a single band, it still sounds like Absu. PM: Correct. CoC: I think that's generally what most good metal bands do: make an album that couldn't be someone else. PM: Right, it gives their sound a signature to it. CoC: Yeah, definitely. What I found that was really great about _Tara_ was that it did, like you say, pull together various different things. There are great bits of stuff that sound to me like Slayer, and "Stone of Destiny" reminds me of King Diamond or Mercyful Fate, but not in the sense that I'd rather listen to those bands. PM: I understand. CoC: It's a case of listening to it and going: wow, that's as cool as some of the stuff they did back in those days, stuff I really like. Would you say you put a limit on how much you can push innovation and revolution? Would you put yourself alongside bands like -- I don't know if you've heard them -- Dillinger Escape Plan or Botch or other American noisecore bands who are really screwing around with time signatures and melody and various other things which, for me at least, I found very interesting. And I wouldn't say that to me _Tara_ sounds as revolutionary or as different as that. PM: To a prior question that I had answered about saying how it's kind of original and innovative: it's not like we're going out of the way by using brass or woodwind sections and slipping them into the music, but what I'm saying about original and innovative is within the -style- of Absu because, since whenever the band started, one of our objectives was always to -keep- the same -style-. -But-, on each release we wanted to be able to handle the instruments in a different fashion. So there's kind of a difference between the two because we don't wanna drastically change the fashion of the euphony, but on each release we wanna be able to progress, become better musicians, and to be able to handle the actual instruments in a different way and a different method. And that's kind of why I'm saying: yeah, it's more innovated -within- "mythological occult metal" and -within- our particular style. Sometimes we try to not really limit ourselves and what we do as far as how guitar riffs, rhythms, bass lines and percussion: how it's written. But then again, I can ironically say that we do put a limit because we don't wanna change the style of the "mythological occult metal", unquote, that we play. CoC: _Tara_ seems like a record that is made pretty much outside of scenes and other music. It doesn't sound like Absu sit down and listen to, like, twenty or thirty records that came out last year and go: right, what are these bands doing? And either: can we do something similar? Or: can we learn something? I think there are good and bad aspects to that but would you say that in a sense Absu is written within a bubble, in your own bubble. Like you were saying about keeping the sound the same but introducing elements that come from your own inspiration, your own minds, rather than what happens to be happening at the time. PM: Yeah, I mean, my influences and inspirations are definitely different from Shaftiel and Equitant (Ifernain)'s, but then again we do all have similar inspirations and influences. So, what we're doing is taking anything from 1959 all the way up to 1999, whatever style of music, and then concocting it into the style of Absu's music. But then again, like you said, we are remaining in a small kind of realm to where there's only so much limits and there's only a certain kind of euphonic structure that will always remain the same in Absu, because I think it's very important, not only to ourselves but to the listeners and the followers of the music, because drastic change in style and fashion -- I think it ruins the signature of a band's style. If you're gonna do that, you might as well terminate the band and go under a different moniker. CoC: Yeah, definitely. I think there's a lot to be said for the whole thing of changing but remaining the same. PM: Right. CoC: It's really hard to balance. PM: And there's many bands within the past four to five years that have drastically changed the fashion of their sound and I'm thinking: well, I know you wanna broaden your audience, but then again I know you're definitely gonna maybe lose some fans and listeners. So, it's possibly a good idea to change the name of your band and go under a different rule, your own different rule, that's the way I feel. CoC: One thing you can argue about music is how much the -name- and what the fans expect -is- part of the music, and a lot of musicians -- I'm not gonna make comment on what is justified and not -- believe that whatever they do with their music -is- what their band is, whereas there is in a sense quite a worthwhile thing to take on; what fans want and expect not only in terms of changing but also in remaining the same, may have some relevance. PM: Correct. CoC: I think it's a very hard thing to balance. What I found interesting about how far back you say you go with the music was listening to the album and getting to "Bron (Of the Waves)" which just reminds me of mid-Seventies-era Rush. PM: Yeah, correct. CoC: In a really cool sort of way 'cause there aren't that many bands who I've known to insert something like that into quite an aggressive, fast, technical album and manage it. Was that a direct reference or something you came up with and later went: hmm, maybe I was listening to _A Farewell to Kings_ that week? PM: Yeah, well, it does have a strong, kind of a mid-Seventies feel and atmosphere to it but basically the structure and the melody of the guitar lines in "Bron (Of the Waves)" was written for the Celtic mythological character Bron who was the brother of Mananna'n Mac Lir and he was also a part of the sea and the way that the waves have rushed and crashed, so I wanted to make it kind of a subtle piece and I wanted it to be kind of emotional, a very sensational piece. And that I thought was a good preface before it goes into the epic song, which is "Stone of Destiny". So, yeah, it's definitely a part of the old influence that I have and I thought it would just be a good preface to the epic song on the album. CoC: Coming onto a more common issue: a lot of the people who are gonna read this are gonna be into death metal, black metal and all sorts of other things, and Absu's a pretty -- in the traditional meaning of occult, it's a pretty occult concept. It's quite out there -- occult meaning esoteric... PM: Esoteric. Definitely. CoC: That sort of thing. I think the thing about this release is that you would have to absorb and take a lot of time over it, and people seem to be absorbing and taking time over things -- a lot of the time -- less and less now. What would you say -- not in justifying _Tara_ but in pitching _Tara_ to this sort of audience? If people say: you've all got Scottish names and slightly kitsch Celtic themes -- what might seem to them kitsch -- how would you answer that sort of person or that sort of attitude? Would you say they're the kind of people who could get into Absu and how would you go about convincing them? PM: Well, you know we do have a lot of European ancestral attributions that are locked within our souls and our minds, and since there's such a short history behind North America I think it's most important that we express our ancestral attributions with our Scottish and Irish bloodlines. I mean, of course our ancestral lines are a concoction of two to three different nationalities, but what interests us most is the magic and the mythology and the esotericism behind Celtic mythology. The two releases before _Tara_ -- _The Third Storm of Cythraul_ [CoC #18] and _In the Eyes of Ioldanach_ [CoC #35] -- are actually parts, first and second parts which lead to the last part of a trilogy for Absu which is _Tara_. And, you know, _Tara_ being the exalted imperial hill in county Meath island where the high kings and tyrants once reigned in Celtic mythology, I thought this would have been the most appropriate title for this album, being the concept that it is. And _Tara_ is actually the "stone of destiny". There's a throne: that's actually at the top. So our objective was to go through each of the songs before we reached "Stone of Destiny" -- track 12, which is the epic song -- go through all these battles, go through a shitload of lessons and teachings with magic and gnosticism, conquering and beating the enemy and then being able to go up to the throne, being crowned, as kind of like emperors, and to be immortalised within our minds. That's the way I see it and a lot of humans can say that we're a pretentious, pompous type of outfit: it really doesn't matter, 'cause metaphysically and conceptually speaking, combining the history of Scotland, and Ireland especially with _Tara_, with magic and mythology -- combining those all together -- those are our certain goals and objectives that are finally accomplished with the album of _Tara_. CoC: Right. So, the sort of impression I get is that this is more like a complex, intricate -- almost like a sort of well-researched literary work which you seem to have put together quite meticulously. I mean, maybe there's spontaneity lurking there, but a lot of it seems -- what's the word -- highly structured, carefully put together... PM: Correct. CoC: Nothing is out of place. PM: Right. There are really no general rules in extreme metal music anymore and I've never thought there were in the beginning. And having a pagan heart that we do, basically, to sum this up in a conclusive thought, what I've done is just basically created and concocted fiction and non-fiction and actually put them together and that's part of what _Tara_ is all about, definitely. CoC: Finally, where would you say the Celtic mythological side and the heavy metal side meet? 'Cause one of the ways of interpreting Absu, that some people might take, is that heavy metal and rock, more than some other forms of music -- not necessarily more than all but certainly more than popular pop music, maybe not more than opera -- has this tendency to go for big concepts, and go for costume or mythology in a sort of -excessive- way which in other genres would just be thrown out the window. Some of the stuff Rush would do with concepts would just be plain silly coming out of certain other bands, but rock audiences seem to just go with it. Would you say that's at all the reason why you chose metal to express this large, involved, intricate and complex concept? PM: To most people when they think of extreme metal music and heavy metal music I don't think that the first thing that comes to their mind is the geographical landscapes of Ireland, I don't think that's the first thing that comes to mind. CoC: I completely agree. PM: They think more of like denim and leather, wearing black and red, raising a fist up to the sky, more or less. CoC: If you're pushing into the early-, mid-, late-Eighties -- pushing into thrash -- it's the whole beer-swillin', hard rockin' attitude, sort of thing. But if take a band like Manowar -- who are quite shallow in terms of concepts maybe, to some extent -- a metal audience can accept how utterly ludicrous Manowar look to the average man in the street. And someone like me who is serious, and goes to university, and doesn't actually take it all seriously can enjoy it and enjoy it almost in a contradictory way. I find it funny but also I find it kind of cool, I can actually get into that. PM: Correct. Well, when I think of Celtic myths and legend I think of three words that come up in the top of my mind: elegance, resonance [it sounded like he said "renaissance" but that seemed unlikely considering the comparative historical contexts -- Paul] and chivalry. Which I think is what internally represents each member of the Cythraul Klan of Absu. But ironically speaking at the same time, which is another side to our beings, I think of us as berserk-like, maniacal, tyrannical and completely insane. And I think -- I know the adjective that I had said earlier is totally ironic to what I just said now, but actually with the music of Absu and especially the album of _Tara_ it's an intertwine of all those feelings and emotions and state of minds all combined into one. So with that album: it's maniacal but at the same time it's very... it's chivalrous, it's elegant. For example, a song like "From Ancient Times (Starless Skys Burn to Ash)" is tyrannical, it's maniacal and it's murderous but... I mean, look at "Bron (of the Waves)". [Conversation later turned to whether Absu had a "philosophy". -- Paul] PM: The way that I look at it, it's a philosophy that's perpetual and infinite. I mean, that kind of goes back to what I was saying about there being no rules in what we do but actually the way that I look at it is: realism is metaphysical, and truth is false and vice-versa. And actually it's survival of the fittest when it comes to what we discuss within the poetic patterns of the music. CoC: Would you say there's any influence from the existentialist movements -- not maybe Nietzsche in the typical way that extreme metal people take him but more his angle of asking why should we look for truth and why not look for falsehood? That bears some vague relation to what you were saying about truth and falsehood: you don't have to look for one or the other... PM: Right, um, I would more say that it's about how magic is applied to the mind and tau [I think it's this Eastern notion that he was referring to -- Paul]. There are no limits to what the power of the mind can see and forecast and that's pretty much the way I look at it. CoC: I'm not particularly knowledgeable about mysticism and magic(k), with a "k", I know vaguely that there are texts and there are "teachings". Would you say you believe in magic(k) in the sense that you can affect the world with it? PM: I look at it more as a self-worshipping amulet [I think he said "amulet" -- Paul]. I think of it not as something that can affect the physical world, like you said, but it's something more that can ward off any mortal and human and materialistic disturbances. It's basically an internal shield for the mind and an external body-armour for the body. So an internal shield for the mind and an external shield for the body. That's the way that I look at it. It's not about casting spells and "I'm gonna turn you into a pile of ash". It's not about that, but it's about... magic is about being a self-protectant. CoC: What would you say for the record for people who try to cast Absu away as worthless retro-thrash... PM: CoC: ...as some people will and have? PM: Oh, all I have to say is that you have to be the judge of the magic(k) and the mythology that I create and that I solicit onto planet earth. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= S O N G S O F Q U I N T E S S E N T I A L S O R R O W ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CoC interrogates Jonas Renkse of Katatonia by: David Rocher, Pedro Azevedo and Adrian Bromley Katatonia have always remained, throughout their now ten-year long career, a truly mesmerising band, musically thriving in darkened woe, heart-breaking bleakness and majestic delusion. The CD release of Katatonia's demo, _Jhva Elohim Meth... The Revival_ (1992), followed by the magnificent, enrapturing manifest _Dance of December Souls_ (1993) disclosed them as a doom-laden, melancholic and melodic act ingrained in the growing Scandinavian blackness at that time. Far from the many a time efficient, yet uncannily predictable careers of many acts reveling in the northern scene in the early '90s, Katatonia then followed an evolution which always maintained them ahead of the growling, occult packs with whom they shared the scene. In the space of two consecutive releases -- the _For Funerals to Come_ MCD (1995) and the hermetic _Brave Murder Day_ (1996) --, Katatonia had already foreshadowed significant changes in the bleakness of their works to come, with the appearance of Opeth's impressive singer Micke Akerfeldt on vocals, and their music following an increasingly gothic, incantatory slant. With the release of the beautifully desolate _Sounds of Decay_ MCD in 1997 [CoC #28], the moody Swedish three-piece already seemed to be writing a sad, frosty end to a chapter of their own history. Indeed, as the very confidential and limited _Saw You Drown_ MCD was disclosed in the same year, foretelling the release of Katatonia's third full-length, the aptly named _Discouraged Ones_ [CoC #31], the band's following was left bewildered and perplexed. Their music became tangibly more gothic, owing to more mid-paced, linear compositions and, undoubtedly the most unnerving shock at the time, Jonas Renkse's clear vocals replacing all the forms of beautifully grim, literally tantalising death metal rasps featured in Katatonia's earlier works. As the initial startled reaction to this change dissipated, though, it became obvious that the poignant despair and subdued pain that characterised Katatonia were still there, in a more channeled form which appeared in even more focused ways with the sequel to _Discouraged Ones_, the ambiguous and rather uneasy fourth chapter _Tonight's Decision_ [CoC #42]. Regardless of their quality, both these releases nonetheless bore the stigmata of transition works, and it seems that only now, anno 2001, with the release of the _Teargas_ EP and their fifth album, _Last Fair Deal Gone Down_ [CoC #52], Katatonia have finally succeeded in crafting a sound with which they seem constantly at ease, and have opened an additional insightful breach into their despaired world, writing another beautiful, refined chapter of their evolution. With this brief history of the band spoken, it is now time to unveil the massive interview with Katatonia's brooding, quiet and enigmatic vocalist Jonas Renkse that no less than three CoC writers have prepared for you. In a way, the first part of this article is like vintage wine, as it relates David's conversation with Jonas for the release of Katatonia's former album, _Tonight's Decision_. The second part consists of the merging of Pedro's and Adrian's recent interviews with Jonas, both of which took place shortly after the release of his band's latest record, _Last Fair Deal Gone Down_. Please read on, as Jonas Renkse reveals more about the quintessential sorrow off which Katatonia's majestic evolution feeds... Part 1: FEEDING OFF A DARKNESS COMING ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (shortly after the release of _Tonight's Decision_) by: David Rocher CoC: So, how would you introduce Katatonia's new album [_Tonight's Decision_] to me? Jonas Renkse: Well, it's... a dark journey, basically. It's quite a personal album, of course, because as you might know, we were doing the "death metal" thing earlier, but we have been going up quite a lot musically over the last couple of years, and here we are now, you know? -- doing the normal vocals, and... it's a new direction, basically. CoC: Do you actually feel as though there's been a break in Katatonia's history, or do you view your successive albums and MCDs as a natural evolution, like growing up? JR: Yeah, I think it's about growing up, but I feel that with the previous albums, _Discouraged Ones_, we opened up a new chapter for Katatonia, with us trying the normal vocals. CoC: You'd already had a try at these on the track "Scarlet Heavens"... JR: Yeah, we did. But it was just... an attempt, we just wanted to try it on one song, and we never intended to release that one, but it was released later. But I think "Scarlet Heavens" is quite different, it's not what we're doing today -- it was more goth-related, you know? I think what we're doing now really is what we want to do. CoC: Don't you believe that what you're doing now is goth-related at all? JR: Yeah... I mean, it's goth-related, but I don't really call it "gothic". I can understand people wanting to put a label on the music, and that's totally okay with me, but I don't know what to call our music... but it's kind of "goth-related", as you say. I mean, that's the closest you can get. CoC: I guess so. When you first changed vocal styles, what were you trying to create? JR: I think that we were talking about trying the normal vocals because we felt it would give the music an extra dimension, basically. There's so many more ways now we can vary our music, not being limited by the death metal vocals with no melody in them or anything. So doing the normal vocals, we can put more melody into the music, make it more interesting, basically. And when we started to do the normal vocals, we were forced to strip down the song structures quite a lot -- you know, doing the usual verse-chorus songs, which was kind of hard in the beginning, but very interesting to work with. CoC: As it went with "experimenting", is _Discouraged Ones_ an album you were satisfied with? JR: Yeah! Very much -- I think it came out very good at the time, because I'd never been singing "for real" until we did _Discouraged Ones_, so I'm very satisfied with it. I think it's a good first attempt towards this new style that we're doing now. CoC: I'm a bit puzzled about this: the first time you tried using clear vocals, on the _I Saw You Drown_ MCD, it happened almost secretively -- it was like a "shy" release... JR: Yeah, it was. First of all, it's a limited edition, but we did want to try releasing something before the album, just to get people to get a picture of what we were going to do on the album -- but we didn't have any hopes that it would be a big seller, so we wanted it as a limited edition, and it's always cool to have an unreleased track on it, you know? It's the "Quiet World" track. CoC: "Scarlet Heavens" was almost unreleased, too. JR: Yeah, almost. But it was just a cool thing to do. CoC: You mentioned sales -- saying that you weren't expecting _Discouraged Ones_ to be a big seller. But were Katatonia ever big sellers? JR: No, not really. Not as far as I'm concerned. I think _Discouraged Ones_ has sold, all in all, 20 000 copies, which for me is very good. It means many people have bought the album, which makes me proud... but compared to other metal bands, it's not really anything special. I still think that it's very good, because _Discouraged Ones_ was released on Avantgarde Music, which is still kind of a small label, and they've done some very good work to promote it and everything. I hope _Tonight's Decision_ will reach out a little bit more, due to the new label we have. CoC: How did you sign to Peaceville? JR: We got this letter from Hammy [Peaceville owner -- David] when we released _Discouraged Ones_. He just wanted to tell us that he liked the music very much; he didn't tell us that he was interested back then, he just wanted to say "hey, it's a hell of a good album". And then we got in touch with him and said that our contract with Avantgarde had expired, and he was like "oh shit, this is good -- I want to sign you guys". It was very cool that he just got in touch to tell us that he liked the music and nothing else, and that he then wanted to sign us when he heard that we didn't have a contract at the time, because we had other labels interested at the time, but they heard that we didn't have a contract and then got in touch. Peaceville seems to be very... CoC: More sincere? JR: Yeah, very much. CoC: One of Katatonia's endemic features is the sadness and gloom that appear throughout all your releases, so how do you feel the change in vocal styles reflects this? JR: I think it's much easier to relate to the lyrics when I'm doing the vocals [as opposed to Akerfledt's death vox -- David]. When you're using a normal voice, it's easier to perform the lyrics in a more sincere way. So I think doing the normal vocals can only take the music further, even in the sad and gloomy style that we have, so I think it can only get worse, basically , with our new vocals. There's so many ways that you can vary the songs with these vocals, so I think it's a very good move. CoC: Actually, I think one of Katatonia's typical features is that even when you were using the death metal vocals, they were inflected, and very emotional... JR: Yeah, yeah, I think so too. I did [that kind of] vocals on the first album, _Dance of December Souls_, and people are always telling me how they think the vocals are very desperate-sounding... I think the vocals on that album are still very cool. I don't know how I got that voice, but it felt very natural when we did the album. I'm still proud of that first record, but I think what we're doing now is far more... mature, yeah, exactly. CoC: What about the releases after that, how do you feel about those? JR: Well, I'm proud of everything. I think the first record is kind of stressed; we were very young, but I'm still proud that we got to do an album. When I think about it, it would have been better if we had waited like one more year, if we'd practiced a little bit more and had a little more time in the studio, but I think it's still a worthy debut. The rest of the albums, well -- I'm proud of everything we've done, I'm proud that we've released those albums. _Brave Murder Day_ is a special album to me, because we found something new on that one, that we still keep in what we're doing today. CoC: _Brave Murder Day_ was the most repetitive and "painful" of your albums -- I suppose this was when your gothic influences really started showing through after the death metal sounds on _Dance of December Souls_, so how have your influences changed over the years? JR: The influences have changed quite a lot, because when we did the first album, we were mainly influenced by Paradise Lost, essentially, and Tiamat as well. On _Brave Murder Day_, I'm not really sure, but I don't think we had many influences when we did that album. It was more like we wanted to try something really new for us, which led to this very repetitive sound, which I think is very dark. But I would say that the influences now come from more alternative music, because I think it's very good to bring in influences from other kinds of music and bring them into our sound. It's very healthy for the band and for the music -- so we listen to more alternative music now, not so much metal music anymore; bands like Jeff Buckley, who we did a cover of [in _Tonight's Decision_], bands like Radiohead and stuff. I think it's a cool thing to indulge in, with our material. CoC: So although you're proud of your previous albums, am I right in supposing you could never write the same albums again? JR: I think so. We could never do another _Dance of December Souls_; it would be impossible, because we're such different persons now, if you compare us to what we were back then. Now, we have grown more mature, and our music has as well. I understand what you mean, really. I don't think we will do another _Brave Murder Day_, with the death metal vocals and everything... CoC: Would you consider mixing death metal vocals with your clear vocals? JR: No, I don't think it would sound very good. Some bands can do it, but now that we've released two albums with normal vocals only, I wouldn't like to go back to the death metal thing again. I mean, it's not that I don't like death metal, I still love it, but it doesn't fit us any more, because we have regular songs on the new album, with verse, chorus and everything -- putting in death metal vocals would sound a bit awkward, it would sound a bit... funny. CoC: Although there are no death metal vocals on _Tonight's Decision_, Micke Akerfeldt still produced the vocals... JR: Yeah. He did it on _Discouraged Ones_ as well. He's very, very talented and very musical, and he has a good ear for vocal melodies, basically, so while we were recording the vocals on the new album, we just invited him to the studio, and he was there with us, recording and producing the vocals, and coming up with a lot of good ideas, good melodies. And also, I think it's very good to have someone who's not in the band and can be there with a fresh mind, because we were in the studio for so long, doing boring things like the drum takes and the guitars and everything, so when someone comes in with a fresh mind and has a lot of good ideas, it's very easy. So it's a very cool thing, and especially with Micke, we're very good friends, so it was a good experience. CoC: On the drums, you had Dan Swano, with whom you've been working for a really long time now -- how are things going with him? JR: It's going well, but the thing is that he didn't have anything to do with the album except for the drumming, so he just came down... actually, the album was recorded at Sunlight Studios, here in Stockholm, so we just called up Dan -- we know that he's a very talented drummer, and we're good friends with him, since we've been working so much with him in the past, so we called him up and asked him if he could come down to Stockholm and lay down the drum tracks. I think it was a very good idea. CoC: What's he up to these days? Not much is heard of him these days... JR: I think he's doing the new Nightingale album; I think he's mixing it right now. He works in a music store now -- he closed down the Unisound studios, because of his family and everything. But he still has a smaller studio where he records his own stuff and other people's projects, so he's still very much into the sound thing. He also intends to release another album under the name Dan Swano, so that'll be more of a death metal album -- he's still very active. CoC: Okay, back to Katatonia -- precisely at the time when all these bands were recording at Unisound studios, what do you believe made you stand apart from the masses? JR: Well, I'm not sure -- it might have been that we had different ideas about our music, that most bands don't have when they go into the studio; they just want to have the same sound as their favourite album, or things like that. But I think that when we went into the studio, we started from scratch, really, and tried to work out the best sound for us. And I think it's good for Dan and for other engineers to have someone who is interested in getting an own identity -- then you can work very well together. And I think we worked very well with Dan, he's very friendly and everything. But the last two albums were recorded at Sunlight Studios [three now, including _Last Fair Deal Gone Down_ -- David], and it's the same thing, really -- if you have the time and the will to do something of your own, you can really do it. CoC: The title of an album such as _Discouraged Ones_ has me believing that the true meaning of Katatonia has slipped through most people's fingers, even among your early followers, who may not be with you anymore since _Discouraged Ones_ -- how do you feel about this? JR: Uh... I'm not really sure. The only thing is that I hope what people understand what we're doing today, because we still have the same vibes as always, we still have the same interests as before, and I hope that people can reach a point where they understand what we're doing today, and look upon the old stuff as we do -- it's the old material which has got us here, and that's the most important thing. We would never have sounded like _Discouraged Ones_ when we started the band, that's impossible -- we had to go through all the stages and everything. CoC: How would you say your visual identity, which has always been an important part of Katatonia, has evolved? JR: Well, I guess... when we started with _Dance of December Souls_, we were more into having a "black metal" image, but nowadays, for me it's like... the way we picture ourselves to the outside is not important at all, because I think the music is far more important. So we don't have an image, like Marilyn Manson does or whatever. We just wanted to make music that people can relate to, that people can love -- that's the most important thing. CoC: And how did you land the cover concept for _Tonight's Decision_? JR: Basically, we just wanted to have something that would fit the title, so we got in touch with this artist called Travis Smith, from the States -- we'd seen some of his work before, and that was very, very cool. We got in touch with him, and told him the title, _Tonight's Decision_, and we said that we wanted this to be done with blue colours, we wanted a railway -- and then he came up with this picture, and we said -- directly -- "this is the one". It's a very cool picture, it's very dark, and fits very well with the music. CoC: Okay, since we're talking about artwork, what was the cover art to _Sounds of Decay_? JR: Uh, it's from a film, it was Roberto from Avantgarde who came up with the picture -- you know, he has kind of morbid tastes, and he was like "I've got a perfect picture for you!". It's from a movie called "Begotten", I think, and that picture is God committing suicide, and we thought "Whoa, this is cool", and I think it's very, very dark. It's kind of morbid! CoC: How did you like Christian Death's artwork on which Jesus Christ was giving himself a fix? JR: I think that sometimes it's kinda cool. I don't see myself as a religious person at all, so that kind of mockery, you know, Jesus Christ getting a fix is something that's... still tasteful. I mean, just picturing Jesus Christ on an inverted cross with knives in his body and things like that doesn't interest me -- it's too obvious and cheap. But that kind of other artwork is cooler -- I don't think it's bad or anything. CoC: Hm, I actually thought it was a really powerful cover. One question that comes to my mind now is: what about Katatonia live? JR: Okay, well, we haven't been playing that much at all, really. We did one tour in 1996, for _Brave Murder Day_ -- it was an European tour, a small tour. I think we had something like twenty dates with a Norwegian band called In the Woods... So that's the only tour we've done, and then we've been playing some shows in Sweden, but this was a long way back. We haven't been playing live for a very long time. CoC: What memories do you have of the tour with In the Woods...? JR: Even though the conditions were very bad, it was a good experience for us, because we have to play live -- I reckon there is some demand for it. We're going on a Scandinavian tour next week with Paradise Lost, so it's our first appearance since our last show in Sweden for _Brave Murder Day_ -- so we're kind of nervous! We have a new line-up with a new drummer and a new bass player, so we have to try them out. CoC: Will you be playing material only off the last two albums? JR: Yeah. Because we're opening for Paradise Lost, we don't have very much time to play, so it's good promotion for the new album, basically. We're going to concentrate on songs from the two last albums, because I want to keep my voice -- I don't want to sing death metal in between and ruin my voice. Maybe if we go on a bigger tour, we can figure something out to play some of the older material, because it would be a very cool thing to do. But right now, I think we'll concentrate on this because we have so little time on stage, and we have to find out how we should solve the vocal problem -- because I lost my ability to [growl], you know? CoC: Are you looking forward to touring with Paradise Lost? I've heard that they're kind of egotistical guys... JR: Yeah. I don't have any hopes for the tour, but it's still a very good opportunity. I don't expect it to be a treat, I'm just expecting the worst, and we'll see what happens! CoC: Okay Jonas, I have one last question: how do you think you would have reacted, back in '92, if someone had come up to you and played _Tonight's Decision_? JR: Yeah, I've been thinking about that a couple of times, recently. I would probably have been shocked, and I think that I would have been thinking "oh shit, we're gonna sell out!" , because in '91 and '92, I was really into death metal, it was the only thing I would listen to, I hated all other kinds of music. So I would probably think that the music's shit! CoC: Okay, the last words are yours! Thanks and all the best with your new album! JR: Oh -- thanks for the interview! Part 2: DEPEND ON DARKNESS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (shortly after the release of _Last Fair Deal Gone Down_) by: Pedro Azevedo and Adrian Bromley Katatonia's latest effort _Last Fair Deal Gone Down_ sees the band greatly consolidating the sound they have been developing for the last three full-length albums in this clean vocal era of theirs. The record seems to be meeting critical acclaim virtually everywhere, and Peaceville have even placed a sticker on the package saying it is possibly the best record the label has ever released. Coming from a label that has released albums by such influential bands as My Dying Bride and Anathema (and in other genres At the Gates, Darkthrone and Autopsy), that has to be quite a compliment. "It feels good, of course", acknowledges Renkse. "We didn't ask Peaceville to do that, though, we only saw it when the album came out. But I am very satisfied with _LFDGD_. Musically it's superior to anything else we've done; we have put down a lot of time giving the material its special edge. It's more diverse and that makes it a little easier to listen to. I think it matches the sound I was looking for and hoping we'd be able to do when we first started working on song demos. _Tonight's Decision_ might have been a little darker, but on the other hand it was more of a test for us, we were trying out different things on that one." For _LFDGD_ Katatonia have recruited two new band members. Fred Norrman's role in the band has changed from bassist to guitarist, and so his brother Mattias was brought into the fold to replace him on bass duties. Meanwhile, Jonas Renkse now concentrates exclusively on his vocals, leaving the drum kit for new member Daniel Liljekvist. "They have adapted extremely well to Katatonia", Renkse is pleased to report. "The new bass player is Fred Norrman's younger brother, so we knew him from before. The drummer, Daniel, is very cool, very easy to work with as well. I think they've put their personal touch to whatever they did on the record and that's good for our sound. I also think the fact that we were able to rehearse as a full band made us sound better when we eventually got into the studio." Speaking of which, Katatonia's work at Sunlight Studios was not without its difficulties this time around. Jonas explains: "It took some time to make and record this album, because we had some financial troubles which didn't allow us to be in the studio all of the time. It was a very troublesome period for us, but in the end I think it may have been good for us. We recorded from April to December last year, in small parts all of the time, and when you are away for a couple of weeks you can come back and sit down, listen to what you have done and decide if it is good or not. If there were some guitar parts we didn't like, we could take the time to think about whether it belonged there and either fix it or omit it from the album. I think we actually gained something from all of this mess, so it is cool. It is getting a lot easier for us to achieve the sound and vibe of what we want in each Katatonia record. I am a big fan of being in the studio, I am happy with our studio experiences." He adds: "We knew that the record was eventually going to come out, it was just a matter of time. We weren't worried about it being delayed, it was just something that came out from our problems with the studio and the finances." Katatonia's songwriting process is not a linear one either, according to Jonas. "I think it's different in every record. Anders [Nystrom, guitarist] is the band's main songwriter and he can really do a lot when it comes to making music, but it comes in spurts. One day he'll be all over the place writing music and the next he'll be struggling to get a part down. Sometimes it'll be three or four months before we hear new stuff. This album we started to write once the last record _Tonight's Decision_ came out [in 1999], so it was about six or seven months of writing. It was a lot of hard work for us." _Last Fair Deal Gone Down_ is both a varied record and still strongly Katatonia, and the material contained therein provides vast subject for discussion. Jonas reveals that his favourite tracks from _LFDGD_ are "Clean Today", "Tonight's Music" and "Passing Bird", and explains the story behind the _Teargas_ EP (which came out shortly before _LFDGD_) and its title track. "It wasn't a label decision", states Renkse. "We sort of knew when we wrote the song that if there should be a single from the album, "Teargas" would be excellent. It's short but effective. The decision to release an EP was ours as well: we had a few leftover tracks that wouldn't be on the record, so we wanted to release them as well, and then the idea to put out the _Teargas_ EP came up." A few of the tracks on _LFDGD_ deviate somewhat from what one might expect from Katatonia in some ways; most notably the electronics on "We Will Bury You". Jonas offers some surprising revelations about that: "Well, we had to use the electronics on "We Must Bury You" since our drummer lives in another town and had already left when Anders came down to the studio saying "I made this new song last night". But I think that's cool, it gives the album more diversity and that's quite important. Also, it's a very short song, so it's not like we've changed our sound completely." "This is something we have worked really hard to achieve, to make each song a lone chapter or sound", Renkse adds. "Our previous albums, especially _Discouraged Ones_, they are all very much alike. So, we wanted to go away from that and have each song have its own identity, and I think we pretty much succeeded there. A lot of people tell me this is quite the diverse record and I am happy to hear that. That was the plan all along, to have this sound good and be diverse." Renkse continues: "I think we have a wide range of influences and that doesn't just come from other types of music. A lot of things happen around you and that tends to get into the music and the lyrics. Musically speaking, we have been listening to a lot of different things over the last little while and I think it shows up quite a bit on this record. People say we aren't metal anymore and I don't know how I feel about that. I think we still play heavy music, but it is really hard to shake our death metal roots. We have been listening to a lot of stuff, but not really metal or doom music. I think Tool has been a big influence on us one way or another." "Looking back, I am not sure what we wanted to do with this sound, but it just seems to have been the way for us to grow as a band and explore new things. When this band started ten years ago, and we were playing death metal, I couldn't have foreseen what we have become and the music we are playing. It is very far from what we started out doing, but as we grow older I think we all want to make music that our parents want to listen to", he quips. Renkse and his bandmate Fred Norrman have also produced something far less parent-friendly since Katatonia started to develop this new sound of theirs, a sound which is far from the raw emotions of _Dance of December Souls_ and the harshness of _Brave Murder Day_. This project goes by the name October Tide, under which guise Renkse and Norrman released two full-length records [CoC #30 and #41], the second of which with Marten Hanssen (of the now deceased A Canorous Quintet) on vocals. This dark and doomy project has now come to an end, however. "Basically we did it because we thought it was fun to play guitar together, coming up with cool -- and especially for _Grey Dawn_ -- awkward riffs", Renkse explains. "There was no philosophy behind the band, and thus we couldn't really continue. Inspiration ran dry and we decided to fully concentrate on Katatonia instead. I do especially like _Grey Dawn_, because it's very different, I'd say; we wanted to do something that had not already been done, and I think that we succeeded in that at least. But there will be no more October Tide albums, we are fully occupied with the duties in Katatonia and we'd rather save our ideas for the main band." None of the October Tide records included lyric sheets, but Jonas does produce plenty of emotional and intensely personal words for Katatonia. "I write all the time", he affirms. "I keep small notes everywhere and when it's time to do a new album I have to collect those small pieces and try to see what I was thinking about at the time -- it's sort of a puzzle to make them fit together. Luckily my lyrics often deal with similar subjects, so it's not that hard after all. Some of the lyrics for this new album I had to make up, though, since I found everything being more or less in the same style. As you say, intensely personal. And after a while I feel that it might be too much to just read about my damn problems... So "Sweet Nurse" and "We Must Bury You" especially are more fiction rather than personal lyrics. The latter coming from an article I read about some people committing an accidental murder and they had to get rid of the body. I tried to see myself in their situation, with all their fear, regret, excitement." Jonas is not very keen on describing the kind of emotional qualities of his vocals, however. He explains: "It's hard to tell since I don't really try to achieve something special with my vocals, I just try to make them work together with the lyrics. And since the lyrics are so personal, I guess it's just me in the end. I guess there is some desperation in the vocals, if you listen close... and troubles." As the subject of performing live is brought up, Jonas soon reveals he is not very comfortable with those situations. "I am not really fond of playing live", he admits. "It is like my nightmare, really. I am a bit shy and the stage fright just hits me when I am playing. I get real nervous, because now I am singing for the band and the focus is on me. I used to be the drummer, but now I am leading the band and it puts me in a totally different position. The reason why I make an attempt to get past the nervousness is because I like the vibe and feelings I get when I play live. I like meeting people who have and continue to support my band. I usually drink a beer or something like that before a show to kind of make me relax. Once I get on stage it all changes: I start to hear everything come into place and everyone is playing together as one and I start to feel in control. I tell you, those five minutes before you go on stage are the worst feeling for me. It is terrible, but I am getting used to it. It is all I can do." Katatonia recently played three dates in England, Belgium and Holland [CoC #52] with all four of the other bands that were signed to Peaceville at the time (Akercocke have also joined the label since then). Despite the stage fright, Jonas reckons it was a positive experience. "It's good to play live, we need to practice our live performance since we haven't been very active on the live front, mostly due to our line-up problems. So it was good, it was good for Peaceville as well, I think, to show that they are still going strong. The gigs could have been better, I guess, but at least two of them were cool." On a different subject, the artwork has been consistently remarkable on every Katatonia full-length since _Brave Murder Day_, and Jonas comments on that particular record first. "We found the front and back cover pictures in an archive here in Stockholm", he recalls. "They have tons of good -- and bad -- pictures, and we instantly fell for those two as both of them represented what we were doing at the time. The band picture is also cool, we had the photographer shoot our reflections in a pool of oil in an industrial area -- I think that gives the picture a darker shade than if it was just an ordinary photo." More recently, renowned artist Travis Smith has created some impressive artwork for the last two Katatonia records; Jonas seems to be quite pleased. "This time it was a bit different, because for _Tonight's Decision_ he did most of the work in the computer, I think, but this time he actually had to go out and shoot the right pictures for us. We told him what atmosphere we wanted to be displayed through the layout and he had to get down to those shitty places, like ghettos, to catch that urban decay feeling. The cover is from inside an old shack that he had to break into, and there were beds there, with blood on them and ratty curtains and things like that. And then he found this bathroom and it was excellent to use as a cover. I personally like the picture with a sign saying "closed ahead" because that somehow reminds me of how my life can be at times." Jonas has little to reveal about the future, but he does give some idea of how the band is feeling. "We haven't been talking about a new album yet. I think it can turn out different, though, we have to develop all the time and now we have made three albums more or less in the same style. I don't think we will get more electronic than we already are, though. The songs are the most important thing for us, a good song is always a good song, and if it sounds good when you're writing it, it can only get better. So I think we will focus on that, the songs. And then think of new ways to surround them." Renkse ends the interview with some words on what his role in Katatonia does for him. "This just acts as a real cleansing feeling for me. To be able to write music, write lyrics and work on an album is a great feeling. Making things happen and watching them grow into such powerful pieces is just such an awesome feeling. I need to create music to be happy, 'cause if not I'd be so restless I wouldn't know what to do with myself." Let us hope things stay that way in Katatonia for a long time to come. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= DEAD HEAT FOR THE POLITICIANS OF ECSTASY ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CoC chats with Jim Sheppard of Nevermore by: Paul Schwarz Nevermore were behind Nile by a mere single point in our Writer's Poll of 2000 [CoC #52] -- and had I had the time to get into _Dead Heart in a Dead World_ [CoC #50] just a week or two longer than when the polls went in, I probably would have unwittingly made it album of the year. Nevermore would have deserved it too, not necessarily over Nile, but in different ways just as much -- as reward for the true brilliance of what they created. In _DHiaDW_ Nevermore created one of the greatest classically metal records I have ever had the pleasure to hear, and yet more admirably also made an exceptionally contemporary, modern metal record. Chopping, changing and percussive riffs and rhythms one minute, acoustic and infectious, catchy melodies and refrains the next: Nevermore synthesised contemporary ideas of brutality with truly classic, yet non-regressive, songwriting. I almost expected my CD player to gain a personality and ask to hear some other in the weeks when I was spinning _DHiaDW_ night, day, and to just about anyone who came in the room. That's another wonderful thing about Nevermore: their wide-ranging, deep-down appeal. Without pandering, Nevermore present sounds and songs which I believe most listeners to most forms of heavy music -- from Agoraphobic Nosebleed to AFI -- would latch onto, given time -- and I have watched a varied selection do so. So, on the day of which the evening would bring my first experience of their mighty live presence, I hooked up with bassist Jim Sheppard in London's Astoria (where tonight's Metal Odyssey gig where Dimmu Borgir, In Flames, Lacuna Coil and Susperia would also be present) and we had the following chat on the way to and on the very balcony where from, a mere few hours later, I would watch Nevermore put on a show which filled me with excitement and prompted my lungs to sing along with the lyrical lines from every song I could remember -- that being most of them! CoC: How has it been touring with Annihilator and Soilwork in Europe? Jim Sheppard: Pretty good. There was a positive vibe. The new record seems to be affecting people a lot better. CoC: It seems to have caught people more than the last one -- just like the last one caught people more than the one before. It seems to be a good growing process. JS: Slowly getting there. [As we walk by an Astoria advertisement poster -- proclaiming: "Thursdays will never be the same!" -- Jim repeats the tagline in mock-enthusiastic tones. As I relate the amusing billings that come about as a result of this regular gay night falling after gigs (like "Napalm Death + Gay") and some of the homophobic reactions of metal fans to such things, we reach the balcony, and a table where we can sit down and get to chatting seriously.] JS: I think Rob Halford's starting to break that a little, though. CoC: Yeah, I think so. That was funny: it was really funny how everyone was really surprised and the guy has been dressing in leather and wearing his cap for so long. JS: Then he tells it with a boa and some eyeliner. CoC: Yeah, strange that the way he said it [the industrial, Nine Inch Nails-flavoured musical direction Halford took on his album under the name Two, _Voyeurs_ -- Paul] was totally what he wanted to do and then suddenly he turned out to want to do metal again. Suspicious. This is your first time in the UK, I'm told? JS: Yeah, with Nevermore. CoC: How are you enjoying it? JS: Well, we just got here and immediately went for fish and chips. We were here ten or eleven years ago with Sanctuary. We went to Hammersmith and some other places on a tour with Megadeth. And I haven't forgotten how good the fish and chips are. CoC: Excellent, d'you find a good chippie? JS: Yeah... Not as greasy as what we got when we were here before, so, a bit dry, but it was good. CoC: This being the first show here with Nevermore, how are you feeling about playing for the first time for a UK audience? JS: Excited. Especially to play to a large audience, like will be here tonight. CoC: Yeah, the show sold out the place next door [Mean Fiddler, previously London Astoria 2] and they moved it in here. JS: Yeah, we're really excited, I wish we could play a little bit longer. CoC: How long have you got? JS: Most of this tour we've had forty-five minutes and it was Susperia, Lacuna Coil, Nevermore, In Flames and Dimmu Borgir. But this show in particular the promoter wanted to switch the bands around so we play before Lacuna Coil. I think they're a bit more popular here so we get thirty minutes. CoC: That makes me pretty sad. JS: I don't really understand how it works production-wise either, 'cause we've been sharing a drum riser with In Flames, the first bands set up in front of it, and then Dimmu Borgir has their own drum riser. So it should be a production nightmare. CoC: Do you know whether the album has been doing well, or average, or badly? JS: In the UK we haven't been doing that well. As Sanctuary I think we did better, then that whole scene died out and bands like Machine Head and harder stuff got more popular here. I noticed with this record we've been kind of in the grey: we appeal a bit to a melodic crowd, a little bit to a heavy crowd. So as we do get a little bigger I think we pull from each fanbase. CoC: That's always the hope: that you do that rather than alienating one or the other. JS: I hope that we can at least start doing the set thing [In terms of sales, I think he meant -- Paul] in the UK to the point that we can at least come here and tour 'cause we really like being here. CoC: That's my hope as well, as a fan. That's the thing about the album that's interesting: it does kind of really cut a good line in-between the two [between the heavy crowd and the melodic crowd], even better than _Dreaming Neon Black_ [CoC #38]. You've really got that heavier, more percussive side of things. If people -- which I'd hope -- discover Nevermore through this album, does it feel a bit strange -- having done Sanctuary, having three or four albums with Nevermore now -- for people to suddenly, sort of, discover you as a new band? Is that a bit of a strange thing? 'Cause you're known in the underground and well respected throughout magazines at the level of Terrorizer but above that people don't know the name of the band. JS: It's strange but it's a good feeling, 'cause it definitely means that we're getting a little more popular. I don't have any unreasonable hopes of being a megastar or anything. I wanna do well enough to secure a future and make a living. So when we start reaching the new audiences it definitely is that really good feeling. I mean, I've seen things on this tour that I've never seen at a Nevermore show before where we had someone in full goth regalia and somebody next to her in a Slipknot shirt. We'll have a kind in a Deicide shirt moshing to "Inside Four Walls" and stop to sing "The Heart Collector". I've never seen anything like that, so... CoC: That's really cool. I think Nevermore like a lot of really good bands within the metal / extreme music genre are doing well out of the scene that seems to be emerging. I've talked to a lot of people recently from the guys from Relapse, to Nile, to various other bands from all over the place and people seem to be accepting a lot more of a general idea of extreme music. They can listen to Nevermore and grindcore and Nile and different bands mixing different things. That's the hope, and what you're saying backs that up. How does that fit with your vision of what you do with the music? The last album was a concept album and this album isn't, is it? JS: No, it's just a straightforward metal album. CoC: And the songs!... It's one of those albums where I can't deny any of the songs. There's no skipping. I listen to the whole thing and each song has its own character. Having done that -- and I imagine being quite pleased with that -- how does that fit with your idea of what you'll do for the next one? JS: Perfectly. I think... The first Nevermore record was just some demos we were doing, shopping around. It wasn't intended to be a record but it happened that way. And then with _The Politics of Ecstasy_ [CoC #15] we kind of felt that we did an album where we had to prove ourselves, technically and stuff. We kept it different with _Dreaming Neon Black_ -- we kind of wrote some of the music to the concept that Warrel had and this time we were kind of relaxed. We just decided that we couldn't have another two years in-between records and just decided to do pretty much a straightforward metal record and get it out as soon as possible. It made me realise that in the past we had a habit of fixing things that weren't broken -- adding bridges where you didn't need one, that kind of thing. I think we're all maturing as a songwriting team: this one flowed so much easier. Sometimes people perceive that as selling out, but to me I see as just your songwriting gets better. And I hope we can keep that vibe going. Our record company puts a lot of pressure on us each record 'cause you've gotta do a better job this time. We just don't put any pressure on ourselves and it just kind of happens naturally. We're really fortunate to have two great songwriters: Jeff and Warrel. CoC: That's the thing, _Dead Heart..._ has great songs, yet heavy songs and you have a lot of off-time riffs and interesting structures but there's always a central theme. There's always a chorus you can sing-along to -- and it's not cheap catchiness, it's the good side of catchiness. That's an interesting thing to get. Do you find that comes out well live? Playing the rest of the shows on the tour, have people sung along? JS: Yeah. This record, more than any one we've ever done, we get a lot of people who sing along. I don't know about tonight because I'm not sure how many records we sell here but obviously in Germany, Greece, Portugal, Italy, a lot of people have the record, and the favourite sing-along to have is "The Heart Collector". CoC: That's not surprising. It's a great song. JS: It's a great chorus. The response from the audience has been incredible so far. So, maybe we can get that going tonight, that would be fun. CoC: That would be cool. I'd like to see that. I'll help. Do you find it's kind of difficult doing Nevermore with the whole true metal revival that has been going on throughout Europe? Some people would like to fit Nevermore into that -- I don't know whether Century Media would -- but one of the things about _Dead Heart..._ is that it kind of shies away from that by being a bit too heavy and a bit too modern, to be honest. That's what I really like about it: that it mixes melody and a modern, percussive sound. Do you ever feel pressured to go down that road of writing cheesier metal songs? JS: The thing that makes us more original than most bands in the first place is that we added a newer guitar player -- Jeff was in a death metal band. He had some more modern influences, of course me and Warrel from Sanctuary had some old-school influences and brought 'em together, but the whole true metal scene puzzles me because we have some bands in Europe that deny Nevermore and, actually [we get] a lot of this thing with Iced Earth where Nevermore and Iced Earth are American metal, and "American metal is not true me-tal". And I'm like: what's true metal? To me, true metal is that first metal record I heard: _Black Sabbath_. That's true metal. They're just trying to find an identity, I guess. To me, it's like a lot of Helloween clones are calling themselves true metal. CoC: God that stuff's awful! JS: It's amazing 'cause in Europe you get one and you get ten of them. It's almost like the nu-metal scene in the US where you have a band like Limp Bizkit and then you have all these bands who copy them -- but in America they all go gold. It's unbelievable. CoC: I know, it's amazing how much that trend gets to permeate before it goes. In Europe, Primal Fear and all that stuff is all becoming very popular. I think what is interesting is that metal has a history -- although Black Sabbath changed a lot of things in -their- time -- metal has this weird sort of stigma of wanting to repeat itself, in some cases. JS: Yeah. CoC: Whereas other people wanna see it as something where you can do something new. And they always seem to clash. Some people claim that it's "not metal" when you try to do something new and some people are very much the opposite. I remember Satyr from Satyricon talking about black metal and he was saying that for extremity you have to push boundaries. I totally agree with that. This last year has been an amazing year not only 'cause of the good records that have come out but also 'cause of the variety. I found making up a top twenty there was Nile, Cryptopsy, Drowning Man, Nevermore and loads of stuff that hit a really good range of music. Do you find in the States the audiences are less or more? Do you find they're more receptive to the music 'cause they're -not- coming from the true metal thing or do you find it's the same problem kind of the other way 'round from the nu-metal side of things, maybe? JS: A little bit. I think we've always been a band of the underground and I think, like you said, it's a really exciting time for hard music and metal. Especially in America, we usually like to hook up with a Swedish band; Swedish bands seem to be really popular. Even though we would sell more records than them, they seem to have a really good draw at the shows. We just supported In Flames in the States and that was awesome. We did a tour with Mercyful Fate not too long ago and had about a thousand people on the weekends, no less than six-hundred. The In Flames tour was pretty close to the same; you'd see some of the same fans there, not all of them. In Seattle especially, the whole metal scene went a bit stagnant when grunge came along. And then Korn came out and was really big and everybody who was into old-school metal denied Korn and, I mean, it's not my favourite band but I really appreciate what they do and the fact is that in Seattle when Korn became popular a lot of the nu-metal fans were looking at their roots like Iron Maiden, Nevermore, and actually ended up discovering us. As soon as that whole thing broke our draw tripled in Seattle, again. CoC: I think that's another weird thing: a lot of metallers are negative towards nu-metal. For me, a lot of the bands I don't like; I like a couple of them, like Amen. At the Drive-In are another band [I like] who get lumped in with nu-metal. The thing is, I don't think nu-metal is metal, but I think it's still a valid form of extreme music and people can like it or dislike it on its own terms. But it's a pity that there has to be this big fight about whether it's metal or not. JS: Yeah, it is a pity. Personally I liked Metallica, I loved every song, every record, it was kind of like the old days of Rush: once you been hooked by that band, you can't do anything about it. With nu-metal I actually call it pop-metal. If I hear Korn on the radio and I like a few songs, I won't go out and buy the record just 'cause I don't like 'em all. Same thing with Limp Bizkit: there's a few songs -- mainly off the first album; I really like quite a bit of it -- but the newer stuff is obviously a bit commercial and for MTV. CoC: Limp Bizkit have always, to me, been the most commercial part of it and the part I really don't like, but in the end you do have to give Fred Durst some credit for being clever. He's made a lot of money, he's sub-head [yes, I meant, Vice-President -- Paul] of Interscope Records and that, so... JS: He's a businessman more than a musician. I really got into the first album 'cause the bass player really caught my attention. He's an amazing bass player. Funny story: we were talking to some people in the industry in America and they told us this story about the band Linkin' Park. They're pretty big in the US now and there was a major label behind them and an A&R guy said: let's get another singer involved, give them a little more depth, let's change your name to Linkin' Park, and that way we'll release it the same time as Limp Bizkit and we'll just massively push it all over the TV and radio and that way when the kids go to buy Limp Bizkit, right behind it is Linkin' Park. CoC: That's thoroughly clever. JS: Yeah, and it went platinum within a month: after five weeks in the charts. CoC: I remember people mentioning Linkin' Park to me, and a few weeks later it was everywhere here in the UK, and everyone had heard of it. JS: I mean, that's genius, that's a businessman at work: change the name, put it right behind Limp Bizkit... CoC: Yeah, and good business -can- mix with good music, but it's a pity when business comes first. JS: Yeah. CoC: I think that's one of the problems with music, sometimes, at the moment. You said one the pressures from Century Media was topping this record: do you mean creatively or do you mean also in sales? Where do they put the most emphasis, do you find? JS: I took it creatively but they might have been meant business-wise. It's a shame you can't separate money and art. Painfully, I've learned that it has to be a business, you have to be business-smart if you wanna survive doing it. Otherwise you might as well get out and get a real job. CoC: Absolutely. JS: Especially this year we've been really focussing on that. We haven't had a manager for a long time so me and Warrel have pretty much been managing the band ourselves. CoC: Do you find that better? JS: No. It's like a Catch-22: to get to the next level you need management, to get management you need to get to the next level. We finally were working with getting management the last two years and finally hooked up with a guy at Continental Concerts named Gerald, a German guy, really good manager. So we're psyched. CoC: Let's talk a bit about the album. What kind of themes do you have running through the songs? Because, in many ways the melodies can make it seem -- not happy -- but melodic and consumable but in general it seems to be quite -dark- in terms of subject matter: the title, songs like "Narcosynthesis" and "Inside Four Walls". Are you really trying to say something with the songs or are you just making a small point? JS: Warrel is actually trying to say something; he composes the lyrical content. He finds a lot of inspiration in the darker side of the personality and he does a lot of his writings staying up drinking all night and getting a little depressed: I think a lot of it comes out. It's just where he finds his inspiration, I mean, he doesn't walk around with a cloud over his head when he's done with the creativity part of it. He comes out of it a pretty happy guy. But there's some threads that connect this record to the past ones. Like: when we wrote _The Politics of Ecstasy_, we saw the show on TV and we were really disturbed by the political climate in America: laws, that "drug offenders would do more time than child molesters, rapists and murderers". CoC: Used on "Inside Four Walls", right? JS: Yeah, but that album [_TPoE_] wasn't that personal to us, but we felt strongly about it. Then years later a good friend of ours went to prison, first offence, and he's in prison for seventeen years. And violent criminals get out before he does. And that's where that song ["IFW"] came from. So that kind of connects to _The Politics of Ecstasy_ but we came to realise it personally. "Dead Heart in a Dead World", the title track, was pretty much just putting closure to _Dreaming Neon Black_, which was a pretty personal story for Warrel. Most of the rest of the songs are just fun. When we did "We Disintegrate" we felt like Judas Priest doing balls-out metal. CoC: Absolutely. It's really very chorusy in all the good ways. "Believe in Nothing" is a really good juxtaposition because it's probably the most melodic and imbuing song on the record -- "The Heart Collector" has a certain element but "Believe in Nothing", which I heard on samplers, is very melodic -- but it's also complete nihilism (lyrically) [though that's maybe an exaggeration from a philosophic perspective -- Paul]. JS: That song definitely is one I'm proud of and we really like. A lot of people, 'cause we did a video for it, were offended at the fact we did a video for that song and wanted to know if we were changing our direction. But if you listen to every Nevermore album we have a song that's kinda like that. We grew up listening to Scorpions and stuff and we don't deny ballads. We all pretty much wrote that whole thing but the whole lyrical thing could be summed up by the fact that we covered "SoS", "Sound of Silence". Warrel's sisters were big fans of that and he grew up listening to Simon & Garfunkel. And I think you can see this correlation between Warrel's lyrics and Paul Simon's lyrics. Paul Simon wrote some really dark, depressive material back then, but the melodies were kind of upbeat and poppy. And I think you can kind of see a little bit of that in our music where the lyrics are pretty heavy and dark at times but the music isn't always as dark as the lyrics. CoC: I think that's definitely something you can do with music. A lot of popular songs from the past, if you actually sit down and listen to the lyrics, you can see how screwed up some of these people must have been. Is the music written very separately to the lyrics -- are the lyrics put to the music -- or do you kind of write them in tandem? The bit in the middle of "Inside Four Walls" really seems to fit with that quoting and with the feel of it: "Is this justice? Is this the American way?". JS: It's actually, I think, a kind of magic. It's chemistry in the band, we've been together long enough. Sometimes Warrel has the vocal melodies and hums the guitar lines to Jeff. Other times Jeff has the music and Warrel just... it's like magic: he'll have some lyrics that automatically fit to it. He has always wanted to do "The Sound of Silence" and we never set out to cover the song. Jeff wrote a song and presented it to Warrel and he immediately heard the vocal melodies of "Sound of Silence". We didn't plan on doing that as a cover, we have a history of bastardising covers but I think this time we took it a step further, you could say. CoC: Foolish that I am I didn't realise: it just sounded like a good song that fitted into the record. [*see bottom] So, I guess you managed to do it properly. JS: We're all wondering if Paul Simon is gonna like it or hate it. It'd be fun to see him do a soundcheck with that song. Really, the only part of the song that's connected to the original is the guitar line at the beginning and as soon as it kicks in it's a completely different song with the exception of the vocals and the lyrics. CoC: How do you think Nevermore -- as the audience for the band goes -- fits with the other bands on tonight's bill [Susperia, Lacuna Coil, In Flames and Dimmu Borgir in case it wasn't clear]. Dimmu Borgir are a very popular black metal proposition and then In Flames is a very different audience. Lacuna Coil maybe fits with Dimmu Borgir [wrong, wrong and wrong in retrospect! -- Paul] and so do Susperia, but I think the one you'd fit with would be In Flames? JS: Yeah. CoC: Do you think a lot of the crowd are gonna be a bit non-plussed or do you think with your earlier idea of the different kids, things will be OK? JS: It's hard to say. In most of Europe the crossover thing is working really well. With this package we haven't had any negative response from the audience at all. And I kinda think there are two bands who are in the same kind of genre: Susperia and Dimmu Borgir, opening and closing, which makes sense. Lacuna Coil is a completely different thing to me and then Nevermore is different and In Flames are different. CoC: In Flames are definitely on a different sort of trip from Nevermore, but I can sort of, in a very vague way, see where people would link up the two. I know a lot of people who like In Flames who also like Nevermore. When I first play people Nevermore a lot the comments I've got have been: it's kind of heavy and it's kind of melodic and I'm not sure where it's going. Then, after a few listens, they like that aspect of it. Do you find that live, by the time you're finishing your set, people are getting it, or do you find it catches them a bit off-guard? JS: I notice that by the end a lot of people who were there for Dimmu with their faces staring at us blankly at the end are headbanging and getting into it. CoC: So, not the typical "Slayer reaction"? JS: I think the fact that we've never really budged or changed direction and just stuck with the grey area we were in, now that we're expanding into the other audiences it definitely will give us some longevity if we pull a little bit from each audience. I am excited for tonight, really. I've seen shows in Seattle for bands who open for Slayer: that's like the kiss of death. But I think with this European bill all the bands are different but there is a thread between 'em all that we can connect with. The gothic, thrash... CoC: This is a big enough thing where it's not a Dimmu Borgir gig, it's the "Metal Odyssey" gig. They'll hopefully be people here to see all the bands. And there were, I can assure you... [After the interview, I ask Jim to sign something. I mention how cliche it seems for me to ask for my album to be signed, and he supplies me with a convenient quote to end this interview with.] JS: It sounds kind of cliche, but it is my favourite Nevermore record. [*Note: I'd never heard the original version until recently, and after this interview (you are further recommended to check out the Simpsons alternative take on the same song in the episode "Lady Bouvier's Lover", though it was the lyrics that they altered). -- Paul] =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= I N N E R R E S O N A N C E ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CoC interviews Danny Cavanagh of Anathema by: Adrian Bromley You'd think that Anathema guitarist Danny Cavanagh would feel a bit of pressure right now with work being put forth simultaneously for the fall release of their upcoming new album _A Fine Day to Exit_ and their two-part retrospective collection _Resonance_ [part one reviewed in this issue]. Well folks, he isn't worried one bit. In fact, right now he's more worried about getting time in for a bath, some house chores and a trip to the city with his girlfriend. "I've just been busy doing things around the house and sorting through things", starts Cavanagh down the phone line. I admit to him that I have been busy before this interview, busy doing my laundry and cleaning my apartment. "Oh yes, I'll have to do some laundry later on if I get a second or two. " For someone who is having a hard time finding downtime in his busy schedule to wash a load, what gives with both projects going on at the same time, Danny? "The whole idea for the collections came from Hammy, who runs Peaceville Records. We are not with Peaceville anymore. He is trying to re-launch the label again with new distribution, so he is trying to put out these two albums of material. We told him, to help out, that he should release the material separately. Have one record with the softer, ambient stuff and the second disc full of all the heavy stuff. Doing all of this is really to help Hammy and get Peaceville up and running strong again. I guess it will be great if we can see some money from it, but I don't want it to affect the sales of the album _A Fine Day to Exit_ [on Music for Nations]. I am going to have to insist that he put out this collection -after- the new album comes out this fall." "All we had to do for this record was to tell him what material to feature on each disc", he says about the collection. "He could have done what he wanted with the collection, he does own the rights, but it was nice that we could be involved in some way. We also chose some cool artwork. We have worked on this a bit. But most of our work the last little while has been focused on the new album." He adds, "But even though we have these two on the go, more focused on the new album, we also have another idea coming down the line for hopefully a release in the New Year. The new album will be an ambient acoustic album with new versions of old songs. There will be the fist four songs on _Judgement_ and songs off the new album and we are just going out and work them over with acoustic guitars and piano." Like most bands over the years, Anathema has evolved. Their sound has expanded, their musicianship has grown and their music has become a lot more strengthened. New ideas are welcomed and old ones are reworked to add freshness to the pot. How does Cavanagh feel about old recordings and the current ones they are working on and/or just finished? "My favourite Anathema record is always the next one", comments the guitarist. "As soon as this album is done and out, I am ready to go onto the new record. As we make records and finish them up, we always make notes of what we want to do differently next time or what needs to be worked on and take that into the next recording. You always want to improve with your music and make it last forever. You always want to be more mature each time out and just make better music." "We can't make the same record twice. We just can't", exclaims Cavanagh. "All the best bands change radically. If you look at The Beatles or Pink Floyd, both of whom are in my top ten all-time favourite bands, you can just see the changes they brought to their music and sound. If you listen to the first Beatles record and the last one and then the one in the middle, they are all completely different. The same goes with Pink Floyd and the early days up to _The Wall_. You couldn't be any more different. Bands change and the best bands always did. I am not saying we are like those great bands, but we do move around and change. We li